GitS: SAC is some of my favorite media period. It largely avoids all of the things that makes anime gross and/or creepy, and is thoughtful about what it does. And, yeah, as I grow older it feels like its only more prescient.
It's why I hope that Cyberpunk actually has something worthwhile to say. I don't mind romps, but cyberpunk as a genre - especially today - seems like it can really explore the nightmare world we're currently living in. Like, I know that Watch_Dogs 3 has something to say, even if it's going to be 110% hamfisted in that classic Ubisoft way. But there's room for more.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the great thing about well-done scifi, especially with a realistic bent to it, is that society grows towards the issues it explores and it becomes increasingly relevant instead of merely a "what if?" thought experiment. Tech gets better, but people are still people and there's no way to tell how they'll actually respond en masse to things that should be revolutionary or tiny.
I sometimes describe Kenji Kamiyama's work as the as the Nolan films of that particular genre. Christopher Nolan's films are among my favorite (recent) American films, and easily my favorite American superhero films--they tend to be very deliberate, masterfully produced, and manage to avoid most of the things that make superhero films grotesque and creepy.
The other Ghost in the Shell incarnations, with different directors such as Arise, or Dreamworks' thing, are pretty different in substantial ways. Something to keep in mind (conversely, people who don't like Stand Alone Complex might like those more in turn).
During one of the interviews, I think they said you could have a character more on the Togusa side of the spectrum, with minimal cybernetics. Now we just need to mod in a Mateba.
Instead of coming up with a new hacking mini game I hope they make it a huge running joke with the same puzzles that are in every rpg. Give me that pipe dream and tower of Hanoi all day.
Sasquatch is the leader of the Animals – a gang from west Pacifica known for their brutality and fascination with everything corporeal. But don’t let their looks fool you. Clever, professional and efficient, they are no ordinary thugs.
In a world full of Mantis Blade and Smart Weapons, you've got to admire someone who just says "Fuck it. I'm going to beat you to death."
Also, something mentioned by Digital Foundry about the 2018 demo, is how much work they've put into the character rigging, and the boss fight with this Sasquatch I think really shows that off.
This line of discussion gave me the perfect comparison. The reason folks have been interested in the "social aspects" of what we've seen of the game link in. I'm worried this Cyberpunk game, if it fails to do some solid examination on racial disparity and gender identity now that it's introduced those topics voluntarily, is going to be to the Cyberpunk genre what the ScarJo movie was to GitS. A really cool spectacle that totally fails to carry the weight of the source material.
One of the funnier (black humor) parts in one of the stand alone complex series was when an old lover got rather obsessed over the teams sniper.
And decided to make herself a perfect copy of his cybernetic body and...
Put her brain in it.
After some murder mysteries, detective work, and a fight scene, the team now has one dead sniper, one alive sniper, and nobody knows which of them is which.
So they give the dead one to the police as the murderer they had been looking for, and keep the live one and when asked which one died basicly go "who cares, got a <snipers name>"
Humor aside, the series sometimes goes pretty deep (for an action series) about the nature of identity (in a world where memories can be edited like video footage), though i admit it sometimes gets pretty navel gazy.
This particularly eerie chapter in 2nd GIG was actually not about Saitou (the Sniper--get it? "SIGHT-O"? Harhar) but Pazu, the team's resident ex-mobster-looking covert investigator, a role he shared with Togusa (who is much more wholesome looking, and was sent to the clinic to get beat up).
If you look carefully, you can actually see in the subsequent knife-fight that the original Pazu from the beginning of the episode is indeed the survivor, and the duplicate is not. Section 9 would also have some more elaborate forensics that could tell the difference between to two, but at the moment, those would not be accessible.
Ah right, been a decade since i watched it so some characters apart from the Major, Batou and Togusa can get somewhat mixed in memories.
The central arc of Appleseed is that a super computer, Gaia, which runs the best city on the planet after World War 4, discovers a plot to fundamentally alter the human race. Going against type, the AI violently reacts and attempts to use the latest police mobile weapons platform to obliterate its rival AI Tartarus in order to preserve the human race at all costs.
The central conflict being that even though cyborg technology is widespread, humans are just as likely to tear down their own society as before the war, and seemingly nothing can change that other than fundamentally altering the human genome into "Bioroids".
And just as unexpectedly, the main characters decide to fight against Gaia's plan, because things can't keep going as they are. Human nature has to change. And so the AI is shut down, the majority of humans receive stipends to become Bioroids (longer lifespan, fewer emotional swings, increased intelligence etc), while those who want to stay normal humans are allowed to without discrimination. And a "preservation of the species" act is put into place to make sure ordinary humanity remains viable incase Bioroids face unexpected illness or genetic diseases in the future.
Then it goes back to being mostly a cop/spec ops serial story, but it was a good twist I thought.
GitS: SAC is some of my favorite media period. It largely avoids all of the things that makes anime gross and/or creepy, and is thoughtful about what it does.
It's like they had just some regular people off the street sitting in the writing room to tell the writers "Uh, that's not how normal people act around each other" whenever someone tried to dip into the usual anime interpersonal cringery.
The whole "More cyber == less humanity" is a game balance mechanic. Like wizards not being allowed to wear armour.
Cyberpunk literature of the time when Shadow run and CP2020 were created really did not bend that way at all. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, for example, is overtly transhumanist in its philosophy.
The trailer has something really basic going on, the good guys are mostly white, the bad guys are black.
is an accurate representation of what we see in the trailer. I mean the MC is white (I guess) because that's what they've chosen to go for in the marketing, but The Voodoo Boys are not "bad guys" anymore than Stout was a "bad guy" from the gameplay demo in 2018. The Animals just seem like a diverse group of juiced up shitheads.
Really feels like a lot of sentiment regarding representation in this games (that we've seen less than 1% of) is based off that initial RPS hot-take (a take which itself reads pretty shakey).
I'm going to be honest I'd probably stab V in the back if I was the Voodoo Boys because
I mean V's a mercenary who knows all their secrets and if she'd go kill the gang across the street for a few creds, she'd do the same to them
What's most infuriating about the read on these characters from RPS is that it assumes that they betray V because "of course they will; they're blaaaaack" instead of "of course they will; this is a cut-throat world and whomever is on top wins." This
The violent black thugs betrayed us, as the corporate white man said they would. If CD Projeckt are trying to subvert expectations – if the punchline is, but sometimes the thugs are really thugs – then it’s not one that lands.
line is kind of infuriating because it just ignores any context that might exist, and instead imputes motive based on personal bias of the author.
I'm fairly certain that you will be betrayed by about 65,000,000 clean cut white corporate types in this game
If you rescue a puppy, the puppy will betray you
The only one who won't betray you is Keanu, Keanu would never betray anyone
The whole "More cyber == less humanity" is a game balance mechanic. Like wizards not being allowed to wear armour.
Cyberpunk literature of the time when Shadow run and CP2020 were created really did not bend that way at all. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, for example, is overtly transhumanist in its philosophy.
Very much this. It was there to prevent players from all turning into Dragoon full conversions. The in universe back story grew out of that. I have a feeling Pondsmith would likely approach it a little differently in retrospect. I imagine, and hope, CDP figures out a better way to balance things.
Is there an ability in Cyberpunk PnP or confirmed in the game that would resemble...a Force Push?
Because the idea of a magnetic katana that deflect bullets made me think of a kid who really wanted to be a Jedi and now has access to all these fancy cyber toys. So that's my dude.
Figure netrunning covers all the mental aspects of the Force, the bullet time and double jump for reflexes/agility, so I just need something for the telekinesis.
Maybe somebody can mod in an arm attachment that's like those sonic guns from Minority Report.
God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.
Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!
While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.
Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.
And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.
Sneaks on
+13
Options
BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.
Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!
While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.
Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.
And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.
*pops cyberwood*
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
+9
Options
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.
Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!
While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.
Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.
And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.
*pops cyberwood*
/erection.exe
This process may take some time.
/viagra.exe
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.
Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!
While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.
Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.
And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.
*pops cyberwood*
/erection.exe
This process may take some time.
/viagra.exe
(progress bar)
+6
Options
BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Reading up on the Animals and their outlook, I may consider doing a primarily physical run with little to no hacking adjacent stuff and try and be an intelligently guided bowling ball of pain.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Reading up on the Animals and their outlook, I may consider doing a primarily physical run with little to no hacking adjacent stuff and try and be an intelligently guided bowling ball of pain.
Hm. SR (not sure about CP) references how cyber has affected sports. But I never thought about smart bowling balls and knowledge chips for Physics slotted.
0
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The trailer has something really basic going on, the good guys are mostly white, the bad guys are black.
is an accurate representation of what we see in the trailer. I mean the MC is white (I guess) because that's what they've chosen to go for in the marketing, but The Voodoo Boys are not "bad guys" anymore than Stout was a "bad guy" from the gameplay demo in 2018. The Animals just seem like a diverse group of juiced up shitheads.
Really feels like a lot of sentiment regarding representation in this games (that we've seen less than 1% of) is based off that initial RPS hot-take (a take which itself reads pretty shakey).
I'm going to be honest I'd probably stab V in the back if I was the Voodoo Boys because
I mean V's a mercenary who knows all their secrets and if she'd go kill the gang across the street for a few creds, she'd do the same to them
What's most infuriating about the read on these characters from RPS is that it assumes that they betray V because "of course they will; they're blaaaaack" instead of "of course they will; this is a cut-throat world and whomever is on top wins." This
The violent black thugs betrayed us, as the corporate white man said they would. If CD Projeckt are trying to subvert expectations – if the punchline is, but sometimes the thugs are really thugs – then it’s not one that lands.
line is kind of infuriating because it just ignores any context that might exist, and instead imputes motive based on personal bias of the author.
I'm fairly certain that you will be betrayed by about 65,000,000 clean cut white corporate types in this game
If you rescue a puppy, the puppy will betray you
The only one who won't betray you is Keanu, Keanu would never betray anyone
I found that critique of the game rather silly since there'd been a discussion in this thread about how the standard cyberpunk session was: Get hired to do a job, do the job, get betrayed by the people who hired you.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I know what I really expect from the guys everyone insists are some of the best writers in the industry is stuff from a 16 year olds' first 2020 campaign.
Is there an ability in Cyberpunk PnP or confirmed in the game that would resemble...a Force Push?
Because the idea of a magnetic katana that deflect bullets made me think of a kid who really wanted to be a Jedi and now has access to all these fancy cyber toys. So that's my dude.
Figure netrunning covers all the mental aspects of the Force, the bullet time and double jump for reflexes/agility, so I just need something for the telekinesis.
Maybe somebody can mod in an arm attachment that's like those sonic guns from Minority Report.
Nothing immediately comes to mind for this. Though the list of cybernetics from the splat books are absurd so you could almost certainly figure out a way to jerry rig something jedi adjacent.
2077 being two generations down the line I feel like they'll happily have throwing weapons with magnetized hands or whatever if they wanted that angle.
I know what I really expect from the guys everyone insists are some of the best writers in the industry is stuff from a 16 year olds' first 2020 campaign.
And yet, if no one betrayed you after a mission, ever, it'd hardly be cyberpunk at all.
Better to have it happen early and set the stage, and then use it sparingly.
Yeah, basically someone is going to backstab you in the game, may not necessarily be the same entity either. You will inevitably side with either a gang or gangs or a corporation of some sort, at least until you grow powerful enough that you can go rogue with your confidants and just sow chaos at your leisure. So create alliances knowing that they are always tentative, and have a backup plan for whenever they turn on you, or you turn on them.
Basically be Batman, or David Xanatos. Have a plan to make every option a win, and only trust in a rare few. That kind of Machiavellian mindset is at the heart of Cyberpunk, because the setting banks on everyone being in it for themselves.
The other end of it is that when you start this game, you're effectively nobody. You have no standing no credibility and no reputation so people who have those things are going to use you like a disposable lighter and will continue to do so until you prove that you aren't someone who should be fucked with.
The other thing is that if you don't backstab corporations in cyberpunk things, and they don't backstab you, then... you're... really just a freelance corporate shill, congrats?
(apparently the most recent edition of Shadowrun accidentally stepped in that one by saying that runners take jobs from corps so that eventually they can... make their own corp??? and "change things from the top?" which is the most liberterian techbro thing I've ever heard, and basically the opposite of punk)
The other thing is that if you don't backstab corporations in cyberpunk things, and they don't backstab you, then... you're... really just a freelance corporate shill, congrats?
(apparently the most recent edition of Shadowrun accidentally stepped in that one by saying that runners take jobs from corps so that eventually they can... make their own corp??? and "change things from the top?" which is the most liberterian techbro thing I've ever heard, and basically the opposite of punk)
Pretty much just teasing us with stuff I expect we'll get a chance to see in the gameplay demo once it drops at PAX. That music though from the PS4 (static) theme is pretty moody.
Posts
It's why I hope that Cyberpunk actually has something worthwhile to say. I don't mind romps, but cyberpunk as a genre - especially today - seems like it can really explore the nightmare world we're currently living in. Like, I know that Watch_Dogs 3 has something to say, even if it's going to be 110% hamfisted in that classic Ubisoft way. But there's room for more.
The other Ghost in the Shell incarnations, with different directors such as Arise, or Dreamworks' thing, are pretty different in substantial ways. Something to keep in mind (conversely, people who don't like Stand Alone Complex might like those more in turn).
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
In a world full of Mantis Blade and Smart Weapons, you've got to admire someone who just says "Fuck it. I'm going to beat you to death."
Also, something mentioned by Digital Foundry about the 2018 demo, is how much work they've put into the character rigging, and the boss fight with this Sasquatch I think really shows that off.
Ah right, been a decade since i watched it so some characters apart from the Major, Batou and Togusa can get somewhat mixed in memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5Rkhf3gJw
The central arc of Appleseed is that a super computer, Gaia, which runs the best city on the planet after World War 4, discovers a plot to fundamentally alter the human race. Going against type, the AI violently reacts and attempts to use the latest police mobile weapons platform to obliterate its rival AI Tartarus in order to preserve the human race at all costs.
The central conflict being that even though cyborg technology is widespread, humans are just as likely to tear down their own society as before the war, and seemingly nothing can change that other than fundamentally altering the human genome into "Bioroids".
And just as unexpectedly, the main characters decide to fight against Gaia's plan, because things can't keep going as they are. Human nature has to change. And so the AI is shut down, the majority of humans receive stipends to become Bioroids (longer lifespan, fewer emotional swings, increased intelligence etc), while those who want to stay normal humans are allowed to without discrimination. And a "preservation of the species" act is put into place to make sure ordinary humanity remains viable incase Bioroids face unexpected illness or genetic diseases in the future.
Then it goes back to being mostly a cop/spec ops serial story, but it was a good twist I thought.
It's like they had just some regular people off the street sitting in the writing room to tell the writers "Uh, that's not how normal people act around each other" whenever someone tried to dip into the usual anime interpersonal cringery.
Cyberpunk literature of the time when Shadow run and CP2020 were created really did not bend that way at all. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, for example, is overtly transhumanist in its philosophy.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I'm fairly certain that you will be betrayed by about 65,000,000 clean cut white corporate types in this game
If you rescue a puppy, the puppy will betray you
The only one who won't betray you is Keanu, Keanu would never betray anyone
Returns and Dragonfall. Always a chore.
Very much this. It was there to prevent players from all turning into Dragoon full conversions. The in universe back story grew out of that. I have a feeling Pondsmith would likely approach it a little differently in retrospect. I imagine, and hope, CDP figures out a better way to balance things.
Is there an ability in Cyberpunk PnP or confirmed in the game that would resemble...a Force Push?
Because the idea of a magnetic katana that deflect bullets made me think of a kid who really wanted to be a Jedi and now has access to all these fancy cyber toys. So that's my dude.
Figure netrunning covers all the mental aspects of the Force, the bullet time and double jump for reflexes/agility, so I just need something for the telekinesis.
Maybe somebody can mod in an arm attachment that's like those sonic guns from Minority Report.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!
While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
/pokes my old editor from when I was in magazine work on Twitter like "yo can we turn a GitS marathon into some sort of CP2077 related article"
(the answer is "maybe")
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.
*pops cyberwood*
~ Buckaroo Banzai
/erection.exe
This process may take some time.
/viagra.exe
(progress bar)
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Hm. SR (not sure about CP) references how cyber has affected sports. But I never thought about smart bowling balls and knowledge chips for Physics slotted.
I found that critique of the game rather silly since there'd been a discussion in this thread about how the standard cyberpunk session was: Get hired to do a job, do the job, get betrayed by the people who hired you.
Nothing immediately comes to mind for this. Though the list of cybernetics from the splat books are absurd so you could almost certainly figure out a way to jerry rig something jedi adjacent.
2077 being two generations down the line I feel like they'll happily have throwing weapons with magnetized hands or whatever if they wanted that angle.
And yet, if no one betrayed you after a mission, ever, it'd hardly be cyberpunk at all.
Better to have it happen early and set the stage, and then use it sparingly.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Not even just corporate really, but they set the gold bar.
Basically be Batman, or David Xanatos. Have a plan to make every option a win, and only trust in a rare few. That kind of Machiavellian mindset is at the heart of Cyberpunk, because the setting banks on everyone being in it for themselves.
This is the most basic component of cyberpunk.
(apparently the most recent edition of Shadowrun accidentally stepped in that one by saying that runners take jobs from corps so that eventually they can... make their own corp??? and "change things from the top?" which is the most liberterian techbro thing I've ever heard, and basically the opposite of punk)
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Yikes
But damn.
Pretty much just teasing us with stuff I expect we'll get a chance to see in the gameplay demo once it drops at PAX. That music though from the PS4 (static) theme is pretty moody.