hahah that Nynaeve moment was fucking baller
book stuff
Even if it's just more misdirection as to who the Dragon really is. There's a reason she's the strongest female Channeler outside a couple of the Forsaken.
Nitpick, there are a couple I think on the side of the light who are stronger, mostly among Sewing Circle or Old Ones. Not many though. Nyneave is the strongest of the people that Rand trusts implicitly, which is why she's super important.
.
Bookses
Nobody among the Sewing Circle as they were all too weak to remain at the Tower. They'd never have let someone with even a fraction of Nynaeve'd strength leave. There was one (Sumeko? i think?) who was able to maintain a shield on her, but that was basically just a weird Talent she had. Outside of shielding She was otherwise barely strong enough to light a candle or heal bruises.
There was Alivia who was stronger, but she showed up very late and was kind of poorly developed and did very little until the last book, so I don't really count her.
Sorry, my mistake, the Sewing Circle folks lived longer. Alivia was the former Damane from the Seanchan.
Yeah, the Sewing Circle often lived longer because they weren't bound by the Oaths but still used the Power.
addressed the hand-waveyness by not having Logain do it.
Looking like women get white threads and men get black and that'll be the level of colors we'll see.
Really liking how they showed the madness, too.
Black threads are the taint I think.
Late book spoiler
Though given the Black Tower is a thing maybe not?
Rafe said the black threads are definitely the visual effect for the TaintCorruption, which is why you can see them channeling white threads underneath it before the black creeps up on it.
Episode 4 was some good teevee I tell you whut
Like I wanted to talk about my favorite parts, but then I realized it was the whole episode
The Tinkers are great
The Logain arc was great
Nynaeve
going White Mage Supernova
was great
I also love how people who haven't read the books yet
are probably arguing over whether Mat or Nynaeve is the Dragon now
Just, man, this show is rapidly climbing in my esteem. Now just don't dumpster it plzkthx
hahah that Nynaeve moment was fucking baller
book stuff
Even if it's just more misdirection as to who the Dragon really is. There's a reason she's the strongest female Channeler outside a couple of the Forsaken.
I don't remember any of this stuff from the book.
No basically every scene is completely made up for show except the Egwene and Perrin stuff. Though they borrow elements and conversations from elsewhere. But imo all of it was really good. Captured the spirit of the books.
Regarding specifically the stuff in the spoiler
Yeah, wholly made up, but fairly in character that the first large scale channeling she'd do, that she'd be aware of as channeling, would be healing.
Oh thank god
I was sitting here going "Ok, so I know it's been awhile since I read the books but..."
Least bad episode so far but that could be because I've given up and just skipped half of it.
Main takeaways:
Reds are cops now I guess?
Mashadar is the black goo from Prometheus now?
So much for Logain actually being important in this version.
Includes book spoilers:
I mean? Have you read the books?
1) This is VERY on point for Reds. Their entire point of existence is gentling male channelers, without regard to whether it's a good idea or not, everything else is secondary. (Hi, in case you haven't read WoT (And I'm not referring to HamHamJ here) the entire idea that extremism of belief is a bad thing is like... a major recurring theme.)
2) I'm largely willing to forgive their change in appearance/etc as it's REALLY hard to show some of the internal struggles in a visual medium like this.
3) What? He is gentled in the series as well and gets Healed later on after they discover the ability to Heal Stilling/Gentling, which is when he goes on to help Rand at the Black Tower.
Least bad episode so far but that could be because I've given up and just skipped half of it.
Main takeaways:
Reds are cops now I guess?
Mashadar is the black goo from Prometheus now?
So much for Logain actually being important in this version.
Includes book spoilers:
I mean? Have you read the books?
1) This is VERY on point for Reds. Their entire point of existence is gentling male channelers, without regard to whether it's a good idea or not, everything else is secondary. (Hi, in case you haven't read WoT (And I'm not referring to HamHamJ here) the entire idea that extremism of belief is a bad thing is like... a major recurring theme.)
2) I'm largely willing to forgive their change in appearance/etc as it's REALLY hard to show some of the internal struggles in a visual medium like this.
3) What? He is gentled in the series as well and gets Healed later on after they discover the ability to Heal Stilling/Gentling, which is when he goes on to help Rand at the Black Tower.
Yeah, the only Logain content we get aside from rumors in the first book is Rand looking at him in cage on the street in Caemlyn, from a distance, for a minute, while Logain laughs. That's literally it. He's barely present in TGH except a couple tiny scenes in the Tower as the sad gentled guy. Then I think not at all in TDR, and only shows up again during the flight from the Tower in TSR?
He's more important in this one episode than he was in the entire first book. It's such a bizarre complaint.
They really are pushing hard on the Dragon possibly being a woman, saying women have proclaimed themselves the Dragon in the past. Not really liking that they are just making things up whole cloth just to keep things more under wraps. Having the Dragon be only a man isn’t any more sexist than Aes Sedai being only women and the Amrlyn Seat being only women and Caemlyn being ruled only by women and the Wise Ones being all women or the mistress of the ships, etc, etc, etc. If they didn’t like that the Dragon is only a man, a man seemingly destined to go crazy and destroy everything around him Because of the madness induced by the taint on Saidin, a madness that wouldn’t afflict a woman Channeler, you wouldn’t fear a woman in the same way (though many see the Aes Sedai as being dark friends, taint or no, though even that pales in comparison to how the world at large fears a man who can channel). I love the casting choices and the diversity they’ve used in the characters - it actually gives the feeling that these peoples were forced together by something in the past… though homely after over 3000 years there would be less differences between people since they would have intermingled rather than keeping to separate races of people, but every place having a great mix of nationalities Feels natural in the world they’ve presented. The whole woman possibly being the Dragon Reborn though… like it just can’t happen. Callandor is made for a man only - to help channel Saidin. And attaining it and using it is part of the prophecies. Part of the requirements to be called the Dragon Reborn. There’s a lot more than that, but so much of what proves one the Dragon Reborn would NOT work if it was a woman, and that’s what rubs me the wrong way About all this. The Aes Sedai would know this, all of them would. And so that show runner’s Answer is bullshit and they should just own up to it being something they wanted to change, damn what is in the books, rather than playing coy and saying that the prophecies are old and Aes Sedai don’t trust everything they hear. Come on now, try to not treat the viewers like idiots, not the ones who grew up reading these books. I really don’t believe the pay off they are trying to achieve here by completely changing something so fundamental to the story at large will be worth the damage done to the loads of lore and history behind these books. I’m not seeing the love for this Story they proclaim to have, not yet. And when they do get to Stone of Tear and the Sword there, are they just going to say that it is the only item of its kind that could be used by a woman or a man? The Dragon himself placed it there with waves of Saidin, weaves only a man could see to even attempt to touch the sword… like they are going to have to change so much (and already hear by stating that women in the past proclaimed themselves the Dragon Reborn) just to be able to say that the Dragon could be one of five rather than one of three guys? What’s the real point of this? It isn’t like there aren’t incredibly important women in places of supreme power in these books nor do they not have a major effect on the outcome of the books… so why is it so horrible that only a man can be the Dragon Reborn? It’s not even looked at as being something amazing or to be lusted after or dreamed of. No one would, on their right mind, aspire to be the Dragon Reborn… nor do the books paint Rand as particularly enjoying the role or that it’s one that is praised or respected or anything that could be seen as hero worship. So in what way does making the Dragon able to be a woman benefit the story? Why change so many things within the series to fill some need to make this one thing more Gender friendly? They didn’t touch Aes Sedai or the Whitecloaks nor did they make Padan Fain a woman or Thom Merrillin a woman… so why must the Dragon be changed so? They have yet to provide a satisfactory answer for that.
I love the parts that have nothing to do with the Dragon, the characters are great and even Thom is proving to be better than what he first seemed. And Mat had a great scene with the Little girl. There’s many good parts in this, just certain major parts of the lore feel like they aren’t being treated with any kind of care. And I keep waiting to see the color shifting warmer cloaks since I kept wanting to see that on TV since I was a teen… and it feels like that’s one bit that got cut out because of the special effects budget
I really liked the discussion between Moiraine and Logain. Discussion of "what the wheel wants" vs "forces of nature don't 'want' things" was good. I loved Allana, Liandrin seems well cast.
I also like how they presented Allana and her warders as essentially bi/polygamist, and aside from Nyneave from the backwaters town, no one gave a shit.
Yeah E4 will hopefully calm the doomsayers online down a bit. Doubtful in todays age of cannot be wrong/made up my mind already but oh well. If e4 is a testament to the quality we are going to get moving forward the series is in good hands.
They really are pushing hard on the Dragon possibly being a woman, saying women have proclaimed themselves the Dragon in the past. Not really liking that they are just making things up whole cloth just to keep things more under wraps. Having the Dragon be only a man isn’t any more sexist than Aes Sedai being only women and the Amrlyn Seat being only women and Caemlyn being ruled only by women and the Wise Ones being all women or the mistress of the ships, etc, etc, etc. If they didn’t like that the Dragon is only a man, a man seemingly destined to go crazy and destroy everything around him Because of the madness induced by the taint on Saidin, a madness that wouldn’t afflict a woman Channeler, you wouldn’t fear a woman in the same way (though many see the Aes Sedai as being dark friends, taint or no, though even that pales in comparison to how the world at large fears a man who can channel). I love the casting choices and the diversity they’ve used in the characters - it actually gives the feeling that these peoples were forced together by something in the past… though homely after over 3000 years there would be less differences between people since they would have intermingled rather than keeping to separate races of people, but every place having a great mix of nationalities Feels natural in the world they’ve presented. The whole woman possibly being the Dragon Reborn though… like it just can’t happen. Callandor is made for a man only - to help channel Saidin. And attaining it and using it is part of the prophecies. Part of the requirements to be called the Dragon Reborn. There’s a lot more than that, but so much of what proves one the Dragon Reborn would NOT work if it was a woman, and that’s what rubs me the wrong way About all this. The Aes Sedai would know this, all of them would. And so that show runner’s Answer is bullshit and they should just own up to it being something they wanted to change, damn what is in the books, rather than playing coy and saying that the prophecies are old and Aes Sedai don’t trust everything they hear. Come on now, try to not treat the viewers like idiots, not the ones who grew up reading these books. I really don’t believe the pay off they are trying to achieve here by completely changing something so fundamental to the story at large will be worth the damage done to the loads of lore and history behind these books. I’m not seeing the love for this Story they proclaim to have, not yet. And when they do get to Stone of Tear and the Sword there, are they just going to say that it is the only item of its kind that could be used by a woman or a man? The Dragon himself placed it there with waves of Saidin, weaves only a man could see to even attempt to touch the sword… like they are going to have to change so much (and already hear by stating that women in the past proclaimed themselves the Dragon Reborn) just to be able to say that the Dragon could be one of five rather than one of three guys? What’s the real point of this? It isn’t like there aren’t incredibly important women in places of supreme power in these books nor do they not have a major effect on the outcome of the books… so why is it so horrible that only a man can be the Dragon Reborn? It’s not even looked at as being something amazing or to be lusted after or dreamed of. No one would, on their right mind, aspire to be the Dragon Reborn… nor do the books paint Rand as particularly enjoying the role or that it’s one that is praised or respected or anything that could be seen as hero worship. So in what way does making the Dragon able to be a woman benefit the story? Why change so many things within the series to fill some need to make this one thing more Gender friendly? They didn’t touch Aes Sedai or the Whitecloaks nor did they make Padan Fain a woman or Thom Merrillin a woman… so why must the Dragon be changed so? They have yet to provide a satisfactory answer for that.
I love the parts that have nothing to do with the Dragon, the characters are great and even Thom is proving to be better than what he first seemed. And Mat had a great scene with the Little girl. There’s many good parts in this, just certain major parts of the lore feel like they aren’t being treated with any kind of care. And I keep waiting to see the color shifting warmer cloaks since I kept wanting to see that on TV since I was a teen… and it feels like that’s one bit that got cut out because of the special effects budget
So they are saying a woman could be the Dragon? Who cares. It’s more inclusive and helps smooth some of the men vs women dynamic of the books as well allowing them to get a lot more mileage out of the “Who is the Dragon Reborn?” question for non book readers than I’d expected.
Episode 4 started to show us why some of the changes have been made and was a really good episode.
Thom fighting the myrdraal. We even got to see it move through shadows a bit.
Also the little girl with her Birgitte doll was a nice touch.
No gonna lie I did a fist pump (Book Spoilers 4-5ish)
at that doll, shows the advantage of knowing what seeds you need to plant for later, especially as a one-two with that little tale of the Tuatha'an lady trying to will herself to pick up that spear...an almost direct copy of the Rhuidian flashbacks, beautiful.
I was already down to keep watching after the first three episodes but this one has given me hope that this adaptation might end up being really, really good.
Wheel of Time is an UNREAL show. Definitely going to tackle the books. Unlikely I finish the book series any time soon, but this TV show has me HOOKED. I gotta dig deeper into this story. Definitely recommend to anyone who's even SLIGHTLY into fantasy.
This was a twitter post from an internet friend who's a non book reader. If he's liking it this much it's a sign the series is doing it's job.
The whole "Who is the Dragon?" plot feels like the kind of thing so many shows throw in the first season to hook viewers and then they can't figure out what to do after they resolve the mystery. Like when you have a show centred around a murder or something and then you solve it in the season finale and then it's all "Oh shit, we got renewed, wtf do we do now?". They are putting a lot of eggs in this basket in regards to what they are focusing the viewers attention and interest on and unless we are really getting crazy with the changes it's not gonna last long.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
To be fair, "who is the dragon?" IS the first book, then there's 13 more books about "ok so now what?" I really don't think it's going to be a problem and leaning on that question to reel in viewer for the first season makes 100% sense to me. Once they are on board they will care about the rest of it, it's not an indication that each series is going to be some mystery or anything. At least from where I'm standing it isn't.
I'm guessing the plan is to use the mystery to get them to care about the show. Then at the end of the season once they've solved that mystery, use the characters and events and setting to get them to stay invested.
I mean, I guess there's one mystery they could string out the entire series.
(All books, barely a spoiler of any sort, more a joke)
To be fair, "who is the dragon?" IS the first book, then there's 13 more books about "ok so now what?" I really don't think it's going to be a problem
It isn't the first book though. It's not brought up in the book almost at all.
But it's a mystery that can't last long but that they are putting a ton of focus on and building up viewer expectations around.
While simultaneously not doing things like, say (book spoilers):
developing Rand's character.
them book things
We've gotten bits and pieces of it, like Rand's stuff with Egwene, both their breakup and him (and Perrin) talking about how he'd follow her to the Tower. His stubbornness, both in standing up to Moiraine in Ep2, the door in Ep3, and his kinder side like his discussion with Dana before everything went to shit and him telling Mat he'd be there for him no matter what, when he suspects Mat's the channeler.
Like, if you know what too look for you can see how in many ways he's gotten a ton a development, while still being kind of deliberately undeveloped compared to everyone else, in terms of there being stuff that makes them special.
Egwene was the first with the channeling stuff.
Perrins wolves
Mat's haunted dagger then Thom's suspicion that he's got channeling sickness.
Nynaeve casting Mass Heal.
Rand we get him knocking down a door.
In some ways they're misdirecting so hard it's basically pointing right at him as the everyman hero guy.
And from the full trailer we released, we know they are doing the Blood Snow, and we know Tigraine appears in this season, so I'm guessing episode 7 or 8 will actually flash us back to Winternight and Tam's fever dream reveal that Rand is adopted, to recontextualize a lot of stuff.
Least bad episode so far but that could be because I've given up and just skipped half of it.
Main takeaways:
Reds are cops now I guess?
Mashadar is the black goo from Prometheus now?
So much for Logain actually being important in this version.
Could you please take your negativity somewhere else? I get it, the show isn't your cup of tea.
Edit to add more substance:
My wife had never read any of the books and she is absolutely loving the show. She keeps bouncing theories off me despite my hard rule of not spoiling anything. I think the show has done a wonderful job of hooking non readers and getting them to start reading the books over Christmas after this season ends and adding so many nods and easter eggs to book readers, while also trimming fat, showing and not telling story, and externalizing events that are written in the books as internal monologue. Sure I feel like some things are odd choices but it hasn't been terrible and there should hopefully be some payoff later on.
To be fair, "who is the dragon?" IS the first book, then there's 13 more books about "ok so now what?" I really don't think it's going to be a problem
It isn't the first book though. It's not brought up in the book almost at all.
But it's a mystery that can't last long but that they are putting a ton of focus on and building up viewer expectations around.
While simultaneously not doing things like, say (book spoilers):
developing Rand's character.
them book things
We've gotten bits and pieces of it, like Rand's stuff with Egwene, both their breakup and him (and Perrin) talking about how he'd follow her to the Tower. His stubbornness, both in standing up to Moiraine in Ep2, the door in Ep3, and his kinder side like his discussion with Dana before everything went to shit and him telling Mat he'd be there for him no matter what, when he suspects Mat's the channeler.
Like, if you know what too look for you can see how in many ways he's gotten a ton a development, while still being kind of deliberately undeveloped compared to everyone else, in terms of there being stuff that makes them special.
Egwene was the first with the channeling stuff.
Perrins wolves
Mat's haunted dagger then Thom's suspicion that he's got channeling sickness.
Nynaeve casting Mass Heal.
Rand we get him knocking down a door.
In some ways they're misdirecting so hard it's basically pointing right at him as the everyman hero guy.
And from the full trailer we released, we know they are doing the Blood Snow, and we know Tigraine appears in this season, so I'm guessing episode 7 or 8 will actually flash us back to Winternight and Tam's fever dream reveal that Rand is adopted, to recontextualize a lot of stuff.
Basically none of what you mention is substantial character development. There's like a small handful of character traits at best that have barely been relevant and haven't gotten much attention. There's been a lack of character development in generally honestly. But it's amusing that it's especially notable with some characters.
Ok, a thought that just occurred to me re: Book stuff for a character we haven't met yet
all book
Is Ishamael basically the Thanos of this fiction? He's charismatic, philosophical. He seems like he's got his shit together cause his arguments are logical but his methods and conclusions are absolutely batshit. Even other villains think he's a madman.
Will we see a bunch of nihilists posting Ishamael Was Right?
It's been a while since I read the books, but I thought it was pretty clear in them that
Moiraine had no idea that she'd have multiple candidates in the Two Rivers for The Dragoning, and the only reason that it was obviously Rand to us readers was because he was our PoV character and we heard Tam's fever dream immediately to mark him out as The Main Character
Ok, a thought that just occurred to me re: Book stuff for a character we haven't met yet
all book
Is Ishamael basically the Thanos of this fiction? He's charismatic, philosophical. He seems like he's got his shit together cause his arguments are logical but his methods and conclusions are absolutely batshit. Even other villains think he's a madman.
Will we see a bunch of nihilists posting Ishamael Was Right?
I don't really think that matches up:
Ishamael is perhaps the only one on the Dark Ones side who "gets it". Everyone else is in it for personal gain and shit like that. They are all inherently selfish which is why they make such poor tools. Ishamael is the only true believer in that sense. And his actions all toward actually achieving that end rather then just being in it for himself.
Everyone else thinks he's kinda crazy and at the start he definitely is somewhat but he's never not focused on the actual Dark One's goals and once he's resurrected and not completely nuts he basically goes around getting everyone in line.
Ok, a thought that just occurred to me re: Book stuff for a character we haven't met yet
all book
Is Ishamael basically the Thanos of this fiction? He's charismatic, philosophical. He seems like he's got his shit together cause his arguments are logical but his methods and conclusions are absolutely batshit. Even other villains think he's a madman.
Will we see a bunch of nihilists posting Ishamael Was Right?
I don't really think that matches up:
Ishamael is perhaps the only one on the Dark Ones side who "gets it". Everyone else is in it for personal gain and shit like that. They are all inherently selfish which is why they make such poor tools. Ishamael is the only true believer in that sense. And his actions all toward actually achieving that end rather then just being in it for himself.
Everyone else thinks he's kinda crazy and at the start he definitely is somewhat but he's never not focused on the actual Dark One's goals and once he's resurrected and not completely nuts he basically goes around getting everyone in line.
Right, he's a true believer in destroying time. That's the problem I'm getting at. He's not doing it for immortality or revenge or whatever.
Really liked it.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
On somewhat of a tangent I think I just had a revelation about this kind of prestige television. It's written more like one long miniseries. This episode had the closest thing to a normal A plot and B plot that actually resolved by the end of the episode.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Really liked it.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
Re: Tuatha'an
I've seen a lot of people bothered by the Rumspringa analog, saying that the Tuatha'an are supposed to be Romani inspired (which, they are) but I don't know enough about them to say whether or not they also practice pacifism, but that's definitely a belief of Amish/Mennonite groups. Possibly I'm biased because I was raised Mennonite, but it made perfect sense to me that while they'd definitely want everyone to stay in the community, that it would be important to them that they'd choose the Way of the Leaf. Given how often they work to convert others, even those with a history of violence, it doesn't seem out of character that they'd allow someone back in. Another thing about Amish and Mennonites is that they're part of the larger Anabaptist movement, in which the defining feature is the practice of adult baptism. Baptism being such an important symbol and spiritual commitment in Christianity, to them, an infant cannot possibly by baptized in a meaningful sense. *
book 4+ spoils now
It complicates the execution of the arc that Aram goes through and his relationship with Raen and Ila, but it doesn't make it impossible.
*end of book 1, probably end of this season spoils
Which might also be why Lan's parents swearing him into his eternal suicidal vengeance thing never felt quite right to me. Like a colossal guilt trip to lay on a baby as your last living act.
Really liked it.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
Re: Tinkers
Not book spoilers
I believe They were largely based around the Romani people. A lot of the negative stereotypes (stealing, untrustworthy, etc) are similar between both.
Really liked it.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
Re: Tuatha'an
I've seen a lot of people bothered by the Rumspringa analog, saying that the Tuatha'an are supposed to be Romani inspired (which, they are) but I don't know enough about them to say whether or not they also practice pacifism, but that's definitely a belief of Amish/Mennonite groups. Possibly I'm biased because I was raised Mennonite, but it made perfect sense to me that while they'd definitely want everyone to stay in the community, that it would be important to them that they'd choose the Way of the Leaf. Given how often they work to convert others, even those with a history of violence, it doesn't seem out of character that they'd allow someone back in.
book 4+ spoils now
It complicates the execution of the arc that Aram goes through and his relationship with Raen and Ila, but it doesn't make it impossible.
Ep 4:
I think the whole Rumspringa thing really doesn't make much sense in light of how the Tuatha'an work. It's definitely not anywhere in the books that I'm aware of. As you note, it really screws up Aram's character.
One addition the show did make that I liked is the conversation between Ila and Perrin. That works well with his arc and especially with the changes they've made to the character.
Book Spoilers:
They've kind of moved up his arc with the whitecloaks to start with his wife instead and so this different kind of approach to the Tuatha'an makes sense. In the books, because he's not really felt many consequences for violence in his life yet, his dismissal of their philosophy makes more sense.
On somewhat of a tangent I think I just had a revelation about this kind of prestige television. It's written more like one long miniseries. This episode had the closest thing to a normal A plot and B plot that actually resolved by the end of the episode.
Yeah a trend with a lot of prestige-esque series is that they don't really do traditional episode-specific plotting very well. They might, if the writers are competent, try and tie the bit of story told in any specific episode with some kind of theme but there's rarely a more traditional A/B plot structure that is introduced and resolved.
Really liked it.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
Re: Tinkers
Not book spoilers
I believe They were largely based around the Romani people. A lot of the negative stereotypes (stealing, untrustworthy, etc) are similar between both.
Edit: beaten to it while typing, lol
More on Tinkers, maybe book-adjacent
I think maybe they’re more Irish Travelers, which I hope I’m not wrong in thinking is different from Romani?
Hence also why they cast that one lady whom I love
Yeah — I mean an 8 episode season is insane compared even to stuff like Buffy that started to skew more modern
On somewhat of a tangent I think I just had a revelation about this kind of prestige television. It's written more like one long miniseries. This episode had the closest thing to a normal A plot and B plot that actually resolved by the end of the episode.
Yeah a trend with a lot of prestige-esque series is that they don't really do traditional episode-specific plotting very well. They might, if the writers are competent, try and tie the bit of story told in any specific episode with some kind of theme but there's rarely a more traditional A/B plot structure that is introduced and resolved.
I'm not seeing a problem here.
Episode 1:
Introduces the world and the characters. Major attack that shakes up the main characters lives. Journey begins.
Episode 2:
Characters flee while being pursued. Find temporary shelter in what could easily be described as a monster of the week and then and ultimately end up separated.
Episode 3:
Plot A - Rand and Mat debate whether to go home or continue then have a full on villain of the week that ends with her dead and also solves their dilemma as to where to go.
Plot B - Lan and Nynaeve have personal drama while attempting to save Moraine and ultimately do so by the end of the episode.
Plot C - Egwene and Perrin are pursued by wolves for their conflict which is resolved when it turns out the wolves were not actually pursuing them at all, but leading them to safety.
Episode 4:
Plot A - Moraine/Lan/Nynaeve and Co. deal with the false dragon and ultimately win. Nynaeve is revealed as a channeler in the climax.
Plot B - Rand/Mat/Thom continue their journey and fight a Myrddraal. Rand/Mat lose their new guide.
Plot C - Primarily character development for Perrin and an introduction of the Way of the Leaf. Actually probably the least amount of plot for any of the main characters with the exception of Nynaeve in episode 2.
I can't understand this particular criticism at all. It's not as far off as thinking the show did Logain wrong, but I'm still not seeing it.
Posts
Rafe said the black threads are definitely the visual effect for the TaintCorruption, which is why you can see them channeling white threads underneath it before the black creeps up on it.
Also showing Nyneave and her power vs her block was... well done
Really enjoyed this episode, and am pretty ok with the way they are rearranging things.
Like I wanted to talk about my favorite parts, but then I realized it was the whole episode
The Tinkers are great
The Logain arc was great
Nynaeve
I also love how people who haven't read the books yet
Just, man, this show is rapidly climbing in my esteem. Now just don't dumpster it plzkthx
Oh thank god
I was sitting here going "Ok, so I know it's been awhile since I read the books but..."
Main takeaways:
Mashadar is the black goo from Prometheus now?
So much for Logain actually being important in this version.
Includes book spoilers:
1) This is VERY on point for Reds. Their entire point of existence is gentling male channelers, without regard to whether it's a good idea or not, everything else is secondary. (Hi, in case you haven't read WoT (And I'm not referring to HamHamJ here) the entire idea that extremism of belief is a bad thing is like... a major recurring theme.)
2) I'm largely willing to forgive their change in appearance/etc as it's REALLY hard to show some of the internal struggles in a visual medium like this.
3) What? He is gentled in the series as well and gets Healed later on after they discover the ability to Heal Stilling/Gentling, which is when he goes on to help Rand at the Black Tower.
He's more important in this one episode than he was in the entire first book. It's such a bizarre complaint.
I love the parts that have nothing to do with the Dragon, the characters are great and even Thom is proving to be better than what he first seemed. And Mat had a great scene with the Little girl. There’s many good parts in this, just certain major parts of the lore feel like they aren’t being treated with any kind of care. And I keep waiting to see the color shifting warmer cloaks since I kept wanting to see that on TV since I was a teen… and it feels like that’s one bit that got cut out because of the special effects budget
I also like how they presented Allana and her warders as essentially bi/polygamist, and aside from Nyneave from the backwaters town, no one gave a shit.
for the love of god, paragraphs.
Episode 4 started to show us why some of the changes have been made and was a really good episode.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Also the little girl with her Birgitte doll was a nice touch.
No gonna lie I did a fist pump (Book Spoilers 4-5ish)
I was already down to keep watching after the first three episodes but this one has given me hope that this adaptation might end up being really, really good.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
This was a twitter post from an internet friend who's a non book reader. If he's liking it this much it's a sign the series is doing it's job.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Because it makes no sense. The world and story are no longer logically or thematically coherent.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
I mean, I guess there's one mystery they could string out the entire series.
(All books, barely a spoiler of any sort, more a joke)
It isn't the first book though. It's not brought up in the book almost at all.
But it's a mystery that can't last long but that they are putting a ton of focus on and building up viewer expectations around.
While simultaneously not doing things like, say (book spoilers):
This is pure hyperbole though. If you actually feel that way then you are only posting in this thread to ruin other's peoples enjoyment.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Like, if you know what too look for you can see how in many ways he's gotten a ton a development, while still being kind of deliberately undeveloped compared to everyone else, in terms of there being stuff that makes them special.
Egwene was the first with the channeling stuff.
Perrins wolves
Mat's haunted dagger then Thom's suspicion that he's got channeling sickness.
Nynaeve casting Mass Heal.
Rand we get him knocking down a door.
In some ways they're misdirecting so hard it's basically pointing right at him as the everyman hero guy.
And from the full trailer we released, we know they are doing the Blood Snow, and we know Tigraine appears in this season, so I'm guessing episode 7 or 8 will actually flash us back to Winternight and Tam's fever dream reveal that Rand is adopted, to recontextualize a lot of stuff.
Could you please take your negativity somewhere else? I get it, the show isn't your cup of tea.
Edit to add more substance:
My wife had never read any of the books and she is absolutely loving the show. She keeps bouncing theories off me despite my hard rule of not spoiling anything. I think the show has done a wonderful job of hooking non readers and getting them to start reading the books over Christmas after this season ends and adding so many nods and easter eggs to book readers, while also trimming fat, showing and not telling story, and externalizing events that are written in the books as internal monologue. Sure I feel like some things are odd choices but it hasn't been terrible and there should hopefully be some payoff later on.
Basically none of what you mention is substantial character development. There's like a small handful of character traits at best that have barely been relevant and haven't gotten much attention. There's been a lack of character development in generally honestly. But it's amusing that it's especially notable with some characters.
all book
Will we see a bunch of nihilists posting Ishamael Was Right?
Are you joking? It looked fantastic
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I don't really think that matches up:
Everyone else thinks he's kinda crazy and at the start he definitely is somewhat but he's never not focused on the actual Dark One's goals and once he's resurrected and not completely nuts he basically goes around getting everyone in line.
The battle scene looked cool and everything felt in universe believable.
Nynaeve busting out the mass heal was epic and I can't wait to see how the Aes Sedai change their perception of her and start swarming.
The Tinker stuff was not bad either. EDIT: Sorry, forgot one complaint. Tinkers are amish or something? hah
The fade being afraid of the dagger was super cool.
I wish we had a more glib/jokey Thom but meh, he's ok.
The doll call to Birgitte and "protecting me when I sleep" is a great nod to the books.
Overall the strongest ep for me to date.
I have some quibbles but nothing major.
Re: Tuatha'an
book 4+ spoils now
*end of book 1, probably end of this season spoils
Re: Tinkers
Not book spoilers
Edit: beaten to it while typing, lol
Ep 4:
One addition the show did make that I liked is the conversation between Ila and Perrin. That works well with his arc and especially with the changes they've made to the character.
Book Spoilers:
Yeah a trend with a lot of prestige-esque series is that they don't really do traditional episode-specific plotting very well. They might, if the writers are competent, try and tie the bit of story told in any specific episode with some kind of theme but there's rarely a more traditional A/B plot structure that is introduced and resolved.
More on Tinkers, maybe book-adjacent
Hence also why they cast that one lady whom I love
Yeah — I mean an 8 episode season is insane compared even to stuff like Buffy that started to skew more modern
I'm not seeing a problem here.
Introduces the world and the characters. Major attack that shakes up the main characters lives. Journey begins.
Episode 2:
Characters flee while being pursued. Find temporary shelter in what could easily be described as a monster of the week and then and ultimately end up separated.
Episode 3:
Plot A - Rand and Mat debate whether to go home or continue then have a full on villain of the week that ends with her dead and also solves their dilemma as to where to go.
Plot B - Lan and Nynaeve have personal drama while attempting to save Moraine and ultimately do so by the end of the episode.
Plot C - Egwene and Perrin are pursued by wolves for their conflict which is resolved when it turns out the wolves were not actually pursuing them at all, but leading them to safety.
Episode 4:
Plot A - Moraine/Lan/Nynaeve and Co. deal with the false dragon and ultimately win. Nynaeve is revealed as a channeler in the climax.
Plot B - Rand/Mat/Thom continue their journey and fight a Myrddraal. Rand/Mat lose their new guide.
Plot C - Primarily character development for Perrin and an introduction of the Way of the Leaf. Actually probably the least amount of plot for any of the main characters with the exception of Nynaeve in episode 2.
I can't understand this particular criticism at all. It's not as far off as thinking the show did Logain wrong, but I'm still not seeing it.