"And not to long before that a little Corsican guy used French units as the core of his army and conquered the majority of the world that mattered at that time."
I was actually talking about the last 15-20 years. WW2 is not recent. Except to @Chanus
as far as great big general wars go, WW2 is the most recent.
How did Napoleon get the support of the French people and become emperor after the French mobs did the whole 'kill all emperors' thing less than a decade prior?
Winning wars
Bringing the (war) booty
Fucking up Austria (the hatred of Marie Antoinette was partly because she was Austrian, they really did not like Austria)
Good economy from enhanced trade networks within the empire, plus generous policies towards liberalisation of industry (before he got too big for his boots and tried to blockade English goods)
Hilariously rigged referendums on his decisions (the plebiscite over whether he should become emperor was something like 95% in favour., even within Germanic areas he'd conquered)
Edit: He also ran an extensive network of secret police, had dissidents frequently killed, utilised propaganda mills, and repressed any conquered states that so much as looked at him a bit funny. As laudible as his attitudes towards common law, infrastructure, and freeing of many germanic areas from the feudal system was, he was pretty much the leader of a harsh military junta in all but name.
The French still hold onto old hatreds to this day.
Just a few decades ago their president referred to The Asshole of the World
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I wonder if Napoleon would have eventually relented with some of that stuff.
Like.
Was Napoleon a Bad Dude? You could make a decent argument that France's wars of aggression were in defense of France because of how the entirety of Europe wanted to break it.
Napoleon was a monster (and a military genius). His wars utterly ravaged large parts of Europe and his army committed appalling atrocities in Spain and Portugal.
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
Napoleon was a monster (and a military genius). His wars utterly ravaged large parts of Europe and his army committed appalling atrocities in Spain and Portugal.
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
Yes, but if he didn't go on a conquering spree there would have been large swaths of present day Germany still operating under the feudal system.
Which, let's be honest, isn't any better than a military junta.
Napoleon was a monster (and a military genius). His wars utterly ravaged large parts of Europe and his army committed appalling atrocities in Spain and Portugal.
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
Yes, but if he didn't go on a conquering spree there would have been large swaths of present day Germany still operating under the feudal system.
Which, let's be honest, isn't any better than a military junta.
well that's a huge fucking assumption
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
and was Napoleon really operating outside of the norm for the times as regards the suppression of political opponents?
Like can you point to any one action that he did that another leader at the time didn't?
Napoleon was a monster (and a military genius). His wars utterly ravaged large parts of Europe and his army committed appalling atrocities in Spain and Portugal.
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
The completely nonsensical and hate-driven blockade of English goods, and the subsequent idiotic war against Russia over their breaking of the treaty to enforce it, largely seem to prove that Napoleon wasn't going to ever relax his aggressive foreign policy. If anything, the total opposite.
But given the propaganda and containment tactics used against France during the same time, it's pretty much shitty empire versus shitty empire. Nobody comes out looking any good.
Napoleon was a monster (and a military genius). His wars utterly ravaged large parts of Europe and his army committed appalling atrocities in Spain and Portugal.
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
Yes, but if he didn't go on a conquering spree there would have been large swaths of present day Germany still operating under the feudal system.
Which, let's be honest, isn't any better than a military junta.
well that's a huge fucking assumption
well not until the modern day.
But no the feudal system was still very entrenched at that time. Especially in central and eastern Europe.
and was Napoleon really operating outside of the norm for the times as regards the suppression of political opponents?
Like can you point to any one action that he did that another leader at the time didn't?
No one else's army was marching through Europe at the time killing everyone and stealing everything, so I guess that would go in the 'Napoleon Only' box.
and was Napoleon really operating outside of the norm for the times as regards the suppression of political opponents?
Like can you point to any one action that he did that another leader at the time didn't?
No one else's army was marching through Europe at the time killing everyone and stealing everything, so I guess that would go in the 'Napoleon Only' box.
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
What’s threatening about Fury Road is the idea that when the earth burns, women might not actually want men to protect them. Men might, in fact, be precisely the thing they are trying to survive.
Hmmm
japan on
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
and was Napoleon really operating outside of the norm for the times as regards the suppression of political opponents?
Like can you point to any one action that he did that another leader at the time didn't?
No one else's army was marching through Europe at the time killing everyone and stealing everything, so I guess that would go in the 'Napoleon Only' box.
On 21 January the revolutionary government executed Louis XVI after a trial.[15] This united all European governments, including Spain, Naples, and the Netherlands against the Revolution. France declared war against Britain and the Netherlands on 1 February 1793 and soon afterwards against Spain. In the course of the year 1793 the Empire, the kings of Portugal and Naples and the grand-duke of Tuscany declared war against France. Thus the First Coalition was formed
They were to busy trying to kill the French and steal from them.
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
Nope. The French Army plundered everything in sight and butchered local populations. The British army paid for stuff, hanged looters and didn't tend to massacre whole villages in Spain as punishment for local guerrillas. The French army were like locusts in the Iberian peninsula.
There is absolute shame in picking a fight with everyone if that fight ends up killing thousands upon thousands of people just so you can indulge your ego and wish for a big parade.
What’s threatening about Fury Road is the idea that when the earth burns, women might not actually want men to protect them. Men might, in fact, be precisely the thing they are trying to survive.
Hmmm
This kind of thing almost always makes me go "Interesting point, but if you're actually talking about what they feel threatened by it's probably a far simpler answer"
which in this case is, charlize theron is large and in charge and kinda more badass than max, these feminists are ruining our movies
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
Nope. The French Army plundered everything in sight and butchered local populations. The British army paid for stuff, hanged looters and didn't tend to massacre whole villages as punishment for local guerrillas. The French army were like locusts in the Iberian peninsula.
There is absolute shame in picking a fight with everyone if that fight ends up killing thousands upon thousands of people just so you can indulge your ego and wish for a big parade.
I don't have it in me to be sour over napoleon
it is kind of in the past
norway starved during the wars, because of you guys, by the way :P
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
"New online data terror powers planned" says headline.
Yes, tell me more of this "data terror".
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Tyrion should marry Dany, forging an alliance between the Targs and the Lannisters, and then wreck everything.
*reaches for fanfiction pen*
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
The one great and terrible innovation of Revolutionary/Napoleonic France was that the nation's entire population could be mobilised to support the war effort. This leads to the Total War seen in the US Civil War and the World Wars.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
Data terror is a great term. Is that the new word for how services like Facebook make money?
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
What if Tyrion were to acquire a large and stylish hat?
I'm not sour over Napoleon. I'm opposed to saying hmm maybe he wasn't so bad and did he really do anything that awful because the answer is clearly yes he was pretty awful.
What’s threatening about Fury Road is the idea that when the earth burns, women might not actually want men to protect them. Men might, in fact, be precisely the thing they are trying to survive.
Hmmm
mass rape as part of ethnic warfare is a RL phenomenon in central africa and quite recently in the former yugoslavia
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
Nope. The French Army plundered everything in sight and butchered local populations. The British army paid for stuff, hanged looters and didn't tend to massacre whole villages as punishment for local guerrillas. The French army were like locusts in the Iberian peninsula.
There is absolute shame in picking a fight with everyone if that fight ends up killing thousands upon thousands of people just so you can indulge your ego and wish for a big parade.
Obviously spoken by someone who has never been feted by a big parade
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
I'm fairly certain that if we look not all that far into any of our nation's military pasts, we gonna find some shameful stuff, no matter where we're from
So while there are some definite villains of history, I can't necessarily condemn imperialism on its own
Now, the means of establishing that empire can definitely be condemned, but again we'd probably have a hard time finding an innocent party in that discussion too >_>
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
Nope. The French Army plundered everything in sight and butchered local populations. The British army paid for stuff, hanged looters and didn't tend to massacre whole villages as punishment for local guerrillas. The French army were like locusts in the Iberian peninsula.
There is absolute shame in picking a fight with everyone if that fight ends up killing thousands upon thousands of people just so you can indulge your ego and wish for a big parade.
I don't have it in me to be sour over napoleon
it is kind of in the past
norway starved during the wars, because of you guys, by the way :P
Hey, hey, hey.
The French just have different ideas of what the average body weight should be. It was an honest mistake!
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as far as great big general wars go, WW2 is the most recent.
a section mate walked by a captain and a lieutenant playing chess with an unfortunate troop of recruits as the pieces
The French still hold onto old hatreds to this day.
Just a few decades ago their president referred to The Asshole of the World
Like.
Was Napoleon a Bad Dude? You could make a decent argument that France's wars of aggression were in defense of France because of how the entirety of Europe wanted to break it.
history seems to view him in a "motherfucker got style. Also, balls." kind of light
and his feet still didn't touch the ground
Maybe he would have eased off on the appalling bits once he'd conquered everywhere isn't a compelling argument for me. That is essentially what Dr Doom says.
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Yes, but if he didn't go on a conquering spree there would have been large swaths of present day Germany still operating under the feudal system.
Which, let's be honest, isn't any better than a military junta.
unless it's a discussion of how absurdly bad they were like say, Leopold II
well that's a huge fucking assumption
Like can you point to any one action that he did that another leader at the time didn't?
The completely nonsensical and hate-driven blockade of English goods, and the subsequent idiotic war against Russia over their breaking of the treaty to enforce it, largely seem to prove that Napoleon wasn't going to ever relax his aggressive foreign policy. If anything, the total opposite.
But given the propaganda and containment tactics used against France during the same time, it's pretty much shitty empire versus shitty empire. Nobody comes out looking any good.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
well not until the modern day.
But no the feudal system was still very entrenched at that time. Especially in central and eastern Europe.
No one else's army was marching through Europe at the time killing everyone and stealing everything, so I guess that would go in the 'Napoleon Only' box.
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who knows, the Knights of Malta might still rule it, and we could still have a Venetian Republic.
well, everyone's else armies, chasing him back again
there's no shame in picking a fight with everybody and losing, when they have to make serious effort to beat you.
alternatively, paratroopers dropping on Paris would have been pretty interesting
Hmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_First_Coalition
They were to busy trying to kill the French and steal from them.
Nope. The French Army plundered everything in sight and butchered local populations. The British army paid for stuff, hanged looters and didn't tend to massacre whole villages in Spain as punishment for local guerrillas. The French army were like locusts in the Iberian peninsula.
There is absolute shame in picking a fight with everyone if that fight ends up killing thousands upon thousands of people just so you can indulge your ego and wish for a big parade.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
This kind of thing almost always makes me go "Interesting point, but if you're actually talking about what they feel threatened by it's probably a far simpler answer"
which in this case is, charlize theron is large and in charge and kinda more badass than max, these feminists are ruining our movies
I don't have it in me to be sour over napoleon
it is kind of in the past
norway starved during the wars, because of you guys, by the way :P
Yes, tell me more of this "data terror".
*reaches for fanfiction pen*
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I want the whole damn thing revamped and probably the entire leadership arrested. But this is a start.
Thing is corrupt. It would fit perfectly in China or Russia.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I think they mean cable news.
And yes, I expect him not to reconsider his position and remain in power unless he is arrested too.
mass rape as part of ethnic warfare is a RL phenomenon in central africa and quite recently in the former yugoslavia
Obviously spoken by someone who has never been feted by a big parade
So while there are some definite villains of history, I can't necessarily condemn imperialism on its own
Now, the means of establishing that empire can definitely be condemned, but again we'd probably have a hard time finding an innocent party in that discussion too >_>
Hey, hey, hey.
The French just have different ideas of what the average body weight should be. It was an honest mistake!