The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread: Vaccines!

BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising OddsRegistered User, Moderator mod
edited December 2020 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is different from the updates thread. The updates thread is for posting updates (new news) so that people who just want new information (or clarification of it) don't need to dig through posts about your uncle to get to it; this one is for discussing how we are affected as individuals, and families, and communities. Feel free to cross-post from there to continue discussions.

Oh yeah, and if you are throwing a bunch of numbers out there, or info not everyone might have, cite your sources. It helps keep confusion/misinformation to a minimum and people will like you slightly more.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Father John Jenkins, President of Notre Dame and attender of multiple super spreader events, is very disappointed with his students who rushed the field Saturday night.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    We should, once again, hold individuals responsible for not solving this collective action problem.

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  • Viktor WaltersViktor Walters Registered User regular
    Re: the new Pfizer vaccine trial news, isn't it still extraordinarily early to be reporting data on this? The data collection is meant to be two years, authorizing the vaccine with only two months of data seems wildly irresponsible. Especially if this vaccine is a miss in any major way- that's a compounding public health crisis right there, stoking anti-vax fears in the middle of a pandemic.

    Maybe this has already been discussed- I've honestly been trying to not get too worked up one way or the other over vaccines due to election-related political propagandizing being a huge impact on how we talk about it.

    Doodmann
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    The Biden/Harris transition team has released a statement on the Pfizer vaccine, and god, I had forgotten what a sensible and measured statement even sounded like.


    Statement by President-elect Biden on Pfizer's vaccine progress:

    (Statement in-lined and spoilered for big)
    rLj6bVN.png

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    The Biden/Harris transition team has released a statement on the Pfizer vaccine, and god, I had forgotten what a sensible and measured statement even sounded like.


    Statement by President-elect Biden on Pfizer's vaccine progress:

    (Statement in-lined and spoilered for big)
    rLj6bVN.png

    A measured and sensible statement that reflects the reality of the situation.

    However, I would suggest we can allow ourselves a modicum of good cheer at least. If a vaccine can be made that works, then a better one can be made. This first threshold of “does it do anything” is the most terrifying until you clear it, because if you can do something then you can do better. If you can do nothing? Then you need new ideas that we might not have for years.

    Look at it like AIDS anti retrovirals. Early ones were amazing news, but not so much because of what they were, but what they foreshadowed. They have gone from being expensive infusions costing hundreds of thousands which prevent the worst symptoms, to pills which can stop you getting infected in the first place.

    Now, we can hope that this vaccine just gets the job done all by itself, but once you can breach that first barrier, there can always be hope for a better and better one.

    I do love the clarity of message here though. Donald Trump by contrast will announce that the vaccine will be given out at his rallies or something, and that all his true believers have already got it.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Re: the new Pfizer vaccine trial news, isn't it still extraordinarily early to be reporting data on this? The data collection is meant to be two years, authorizing the vaccine with only two months of data seems wildly irresponsible. Especially if this vaccine is a miss in any major way- that's a compounding public health crisis right there, stoking anti-vax fears in the middle of a pandemic.

    Maybe this has already been discussed- I've honestly been trying to not get too worked up one way or the other over vaccines due to election-related political propagandizing being a huge impact on how we talk about it.

    Here's what I've gleaned on the subject from trying to read as many experts as I can. I should emphasize that I am *not* an expert myself.

    The reason vaccines usually take so long to go through trials is money and bureaucracy. Vaccine side-effects will show up relatively immediately, you don't need to monitor people for years to make sure nothing emerges at the last minute.

    The biggest issue is side effects that are very negative, too rare to show up in your initial studies but common enough to show up when you make it population-wide. Something like "makes you grow a second head in 1 out of 250000 patients" would have a good chance of slipping through phase-III trials but would be a problem when you get into wider use. But there's literally no way to detect those *until* you give the vaccine out for wide use, which is why the initial public release is usually in the form of a phase IV trial.

    I don't believe the accelerated timeline will cause them to miss any safety issues that they would have caught under a normal timeline.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Sorry if this has been hashed to death, but I just have to pause a moment and gesture wildly toward North Dakota.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/?no_nav=true&tid=a_classic-iphone

    Now at 176 cases per 100K daily. Death toll is spiking to match. It’s been weeks now since they were “only” at numbers like 40-50, the kind of numbers that had Californians talking about blocking off the roads to keep out Arizonans. And yet...they seem to have done literally nothing to bend the curve. Nothing. Montana seems to have started to bend it down slightly. But North Dakota is just trucking along.

    Are they just going for High Score at this point?

    I suspect that the rural nature means that the bodies are still largely out of sight, and will remain so for a while. Without a single major metro to generate that “oh shit” moment I’m not sure what is going to get North Dakota to wake the fuck up. I know part of this is just the general cold weather spike that is hitting most of the country. But North Dakota is already double the rate of most other states.

    Mayabird
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    In "Oh wait, you were serious? Let me laugh even harder" News, Mike Pence slithered out from under his rock to claim responsibility for the Pfizer vaccine.

    He was promptly shot down by Pfizer.
    "HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers," tweeted Mr Pence.

    Nikki Haley, Mr Trump’s former UN ambassador, also claimed that the Pfizer work was down to Mr Trump, saying: “Many thanks”.
    Dr Kathrin Jansen, Pfizer’s head of vaccine development, told the New York Times: “We were never part of the Warp Speed ... We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
    In September [Albert Bourla, chairman and CEO of Pfizer] had made the same point, saying: “I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy. When you get money from someone, that always comes with strings.”

    Geeeeet dunked on, you assholes.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    In "Oh wait, you were serious? Let me laugh even harder" News, Mike Pence slithered out from under his rock to claim responsibility for the Pfizer vaccine.

    He was promptly shot down by Pfizer.
    "HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers," tweeted Mr Pence.

    Nikki Haley, Mr Trump’s former UN ambassador, also claimed that the Pfizer work was down to Mr Trump, saying: “Many thanks”.
    Dr Kathrin Jansen, Pfizer’s head of vaccine development, told the New York Times: “We were never part of the Warp Speed ... We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
    In September he had made the same point, saying: “I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy. When you get money from someone, that always comes with strings.”

    Geeeeet dunked on, you assholes.

    Mixed feelings here, because Pfizer not needing government money is because of all the usual issues of the industry for sure. OTOH, woohoo vaccine! And I agree, get dunked.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Ha, fuck you Mike Pence and Donald Trump. While warp speed was actually the only decent part of the white house virus response, i am VERY happy that this first vaccine had nothing to do with them AND that the head of vaccine development at Pfizer is a woman.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    That said, Trump is totally going to be ranting that they delayed this to screw him. But this is just the announcement that their phase 3 trials are successful, so even if they've been building up a stock there's only so much they can ship out in the next couple months.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    That said, Trump is totally going to be ranting that they delayed this to screw him. But this is just the announcement that their phase 3 trials are successful, so even if they've been building up a stock there's only so much they can ship out in the next couple months.

    Which again is what is so good about Pfizer being nothing to do with warp speed. As they can respond to his nonsense with a solid "fuck you you Trump faced idiot, roll back in your hole and die"

    Trump and others don't understand the calculus here. They don't have power any more. They don't have a resource anyone gives a shit about. Pfizer does. This is a nuke in 1946. The knowledge of how to plant crops in 10000 BC. This is the game changer.

    People will want an effective vaccine. Vaccine hesitancy collapses when there actually IS an effective vaccine, as the lie of courage can be allowed to fade. All the idiots who are too brave and have immune systems that are too strong? We'll see their true colors here. They'll be in line clamoring for their shots with everyone else.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    On the topic of the White House... Guess who probably threw another super spreader event?


    NEWS: Sec. Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19 this morning. His deputy chief of staff says he's "in good spirits & feels fortunate to have access to effective therapeutics which aid and markedly speed his recovery." Carson attended the election night party at the White House

    Katherine Faulders is a White House reporter for ABC

    Guessing we'll be seeing more of this in the coming days.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    That said, Trump is totally going to be ranting that they delayed this to screw him. But this is just the announcement that their phase 3 trials are successful, so even if they've been building up a stock there's only so much they can ship out in the next couple months.

    Speaking of, I just got my first official reprimand at work an hour ago.

    Was in the social distanced lunchroom for my break, sitting at a single table like I'm supposed to. Three staff from other departments are crowded around a single table. One if them was speaking, loud enough for everyone to hear, despite the people he was speaking to being less than three feet from him.

    He was explaining why the US case load was skyrocketting. Was it a lack of prevention measures? No. Was it hospitals reporting false numbers? No. Was it governments/media reporting false numbers? No. What about an increase in testing making it disproportional? No.

    The numbers are legitimate.

    But the cause for those numbers, apparently, are that "some people" (he used finger quotes) intentionally infected people, to drive up the case count, so that Donald Trump would lose the election.

    "What the FUCK? Are you insane?"

    That's what got me in trouble. Because I used offensive language.

    Really wanted to say "They did first.", but didn't see the point. Fucking hate corpo-jargo-policy. Always have.

    The supervisor was kinda supportive, but a report still had to be filed.

    Honestly hadn't heard that conspiracy theory before.

    This is just a reminder, that people everywhere, are fucking morons. I live and work in Australia, my current place of work is a hospital, the speaker was a nurse, and the two people at the table with him were an orderly and an intern.

    So fucking dispirited that this kind of thinking exists.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    MorganV wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    That said, Trump is totally going to be ranting that they delayed this to screw him. But this is just the announcement that their phase 3 trials are successful, so even if they've been building up a stock there's only so much they can ship out in the next couple months.

    Speaking of, I just got my first official reprimand at work an hour ago.

    Was in the social distanced lunchroom for my break, sitting at a single table like I'm supposed to. Three staff from other departments are crowded around a single table. One if them was speaking, loud enough for everyone to hear, despite the people he was speaking to being less than three feet from him.

    He was explaining why the US case load was skyrocketting. Was it a lack of prevention measures? No. Was it hospitals reporting false numbers? No. Was it governments/media reporting false numbers? No. What about an increase in testing making it disproportional? No.

    The numbers are legitimate.

    But the cause for those numbers, apparently, are that "some people" (he used finger quotes) intentionally infected people, to drive up the case count, so that Donald Trump would lose the election.

    "What the FUCK? Are you insane?"

    That's what got me in trouble. Because I used offensive language.

    Really wanted to say "They did first.", but didn't see the point. Fucking hate corpo-jargo-policy. Always have.

    The supervisor was kinda supportive, but a report still had to be filed.

    Honestly hadn't heard that conspiracy theory before.

    This is just a reminder, that people everywhere, are fucking morons. I live and work in Australia, my current place of work is a hospital, the speaker was a nurse, and the two people at the table with him were an orderly and an intern.

    So fucking dispirited that this kind of thinking exists.

    Should you see that person again, you may tell them that an American exists who will be happy to use much more than harsh language in response to their nonsense. My Aunts brother died yesterday of the Virus. Many confounding factors, as he was a long term cancer patient, who caught the virus while immunosuppressed and in the late stages of terminal cancer (caught it in hospital) but he certainly didn't TRY to catch it, and nor did anyone deliberately infect him. So I can personally account that 0.1% of yesterdays deaths were wholly 'natural'.

    Edit -Also, he's right. Some people did deliberately infect people. They organized large gatherings in areas with high viral loads, lied to people about protective measures, and then herded them together in tight quarters and inadaquate public transport. They prevented local governments from enacting preemptive responses, and forced them to re-open early. They denied benefits to the poor to make sure they were forced back to work to be infected. They hijacked media messaging, and national agencies to spread misinformation and lies, making people waste time on surface cleaning. They undermined communications efforts, and politicized safety to assure themselves of the strongest possible effects for their campaign of viral spread.

    Those despicable traitors who undermined the Trump reelection campaign, causing 100s of thousands of additional virus cases in the US over the last few weeks and possibly scaring the public into voting Biden? I will name them here so that all will know their crimes!

    Donald Trump
    Donald Trump JR
    Mitch McConnell
    Mike Pence
    Ivanka Trump

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been hashed to death, but I just have to pause a moment and gesture wildly toward North Dakota.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/?no_nav=true&tid=a_classic-iphone

    Now at 176 cases per 100K daily. Death toll is spiking to match. It’s been weeks now since they were “only” at numbers like 40-50, the kind of numbers that had Californians talking about blocking off the roads to keep out Arizonans. And yet...they seem to have done literally nothing to bend the curve. Nothing. Montana seems to have started to bend it down slightly. But North Dakota is just trucking along.

    Are they just going for High Score at this point?

    I suspect that the rural nature means that the bodies are still largely out of sight, and will remain so for a while. Without a single major metro to generate that “oh shit” moment I’m not sure what is going to get North Dakota to wake the fuck up. I know part of this is just the general cold weather spike that is hitting most of the country. But North Dakota is already double the rate of most other states.

    I haven't dug down into the numbers in NoDak, but it's just like anywhere else where most of the people live in populated areas. The populated areas are just smaller and the empty spaces between them are much longer. About half the population lives in a half-dozen population centers. I could be wrong, but I suspect the virus is spreading through Fargo and Bismarck and Grand Forks more than it is hopping through the farmlands. I assume the Bakken mancamps are an absolute cesspit, but then the viruses already spreading through those things might have been too strong for an upstart to horn in on their turf.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    after yesterday's attack of panic and despair, today's news is really good. thank you.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been hashed to death, but I just have to pause a moment and gesture wildly toward North Dakota.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/?no_nav=true&tid=a_classic-iphone

    Now at 176 cases per 100K daily. Death toll is spiking to match. It’s been weeks now since they were “only” at numbers like 40-50, the kind of numbers that had Californians talking about blocking off the roads to keep out Arizonans. And yet...they seem to have done literally nothing to bend the curve. Nothing. Montana seems to have started to bend it down slightly. But North Dakota is just trucking along.

    Are they just going for High Score at this point?

    I suspect that the rural nature means that the bodies are still largely out of sight, and will remain so for a while. Without a single major metro to generate that “oh shit” moment I’m not sure what is going to get North Dakota to wake the fuck up. I know part of this is just the general cold weather spike that is hitting most of the country. But North Dakota is already double the rate of most other states.

    I haven't dug down into the numbers in NoDak, but it's just like anywhere else where most of the people live in populated areas. The populated areas are just smaller and the empty spaces between them are much longer. About half the population lives in a half-dozen population centers. I could be wrong, but I suspect the virus is spreading through Fargo and Bismarck and Grand Forks more than it is hopping through the farmlands. I assume the Bakken mancamps are an absolute cesspit, but then the viruses already spreading through those things might have been too strong for an upstart to horn in on their turf.

    For sure. I lived in Montana, I kinda get the demographics. But I mention “major metro” because a city of millions produces a *pile* of bodies, due to density. It’s harder to miss, harder to ignore. I assume Fargo is like Billings, with maybe 100K people or so (and maybe another 100K in the surrounding area). Deaths in the state are spiking to about 2 per 100K, which means you only have maybe four bodies in the entire metro area daily. That’s not mass-grave and reefer-truck numbers. And I assume it’s similar in the smaller towns, whatever their equivalent to a Livingston or a Townsend might be. Just one here, one there. Its statistically very relevant, but the actual number is unfortunately small enough that it can still be ignored if you’re so inclined.

    It just seems that their population density is low enough that Covid won’t produce the massive event required to get the people there to get on board with doing anything.

    Edit: I suppose I should also look at county breakdowns by population. Could easily be this is just a couple major outbreaks that skews the state due to low numbers. But they just elected a person who had already died of Covid. So I suspect not?

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    after yesterday's attack of panic and despair, today's news is really good. thank you.

    I mean, it's still 2020, there is still a LOT that can go wrong here. But, this is the first breach in the wall. This means we can build a vaccine, and if you can build one which works, you can build a better one.

    This doesn't put the vaccine into your arm tomorrow (and even if it did, it still takes 28 days to 'work'), but, it IS potentially strong enough that its incredibly good for you (who takes the vaccine) even if others are foolish enough not to. That's the potentially very strong news here. A vaccine between 50 and 75% effectiveness would still have been great news, but, benefits start to accrue most strongly for the vaccinated once 'everyone' takes it. It's still good, but, 50% risk of catching Covid is still much worse than the Flu 'overall'.

    But 90%? That means that for the vaccinated the risk falls back to the level of 'flu exists and you could catch it'. Which is very good, and potentially offers even better results once large numbers are vaccinated. If it holds, it means that you can get the vaccine and then pretty much live your life. Now, we SHOULDNT do that, because if we have a well structured national rollout combining vaccinations with social distancing as we roll the protection to more people we can save many more lives, but, if we continue to be incompetent, or your local government is, then all YOU need to do. as an individual is get your hands on this vaccine, and hide inside for 28 days as it takes full effect.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Another beautiful thing about an mRNA vaccine versus a live virus vaccine is that it has no risk of reversion, and should produce a more robust titer than a killed virus vaccine. This will be a boon for the immunocompromised who usually can't take live virus vaccines.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Also one of the reasons this vaccine is coming along so fast is probably that biontech started research in January already and had 20 possible versions before Germany even went into the first lockdown in march. Interesting story really. Up until this year they hadn't done any vaccine research at all and were focused on cancer research. Seems like they made the right decision to branch out at the right time.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    It's interesting that Pfizer chose not to pursue two of their checkpoints for early read-out options (32 and 64 cases) and instead waited until they had 94. I suspect the recent surge in US cases helped them get there.

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    The main thing that concerns me with Pfizer's vaccine (and I believe Moderna's has a similar downside) is how will this be shipped to different clinics and pharmacies. I believe it has a requirement to be kept very cold until it's time to be applied. I'm not sure if some of the other vaccines in trials (Novavax for example) require that kind of overhead from a transportation and storage standpoint.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    On the topic of the White House... Guess who probably threw another super spreader event?


    NEWS: Sec. Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19 this morning. His deputy chief of staff says he's "in good spirits & feels fortunate to have access to effective therapeutics which aid and markedly speed his recovery." Carson attended the election night party at the White House

    Katherine Faulders is a White House reporter for ABC

    Guessing we'll be seeing more of this in the coming days.

    Hopefully he gets some extra good care at Walter Reed Landscaping.

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  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Lower pop areas here in southeast MO are starting to see school shutdowns. It's only a matter of time before it hits us direct, if only for the fact they are out of teachers. Our neighbor signed up to be a sub and they put him to work immediately, literally same day, not having done any training whatsoever because the demand is so high. The general town talk is they're trying to shoestring it along til they can lump in closing with Xmas break. Just lovely

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Crossposted from the election thread:
    madparrot wrote: »
    Because 2020's hack writers just keep typing away, the leader of Trump's effort to fuck with the election

    has corona.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-trump-campaign-official-david-bossie-has-coronavirus.html
    David Bossie, who only days ago was tapped to handle President Donald Trump’s effort to challenge the results of the presidential election, has tested positive for the coronavirus,NBC News reported Monday.

    As a result, Bossie is no longer part of the decision-making process of the election challenge effort, “because he can’t be at the campaign headquarters and he can’t be in the Oval Office,” a source told NBC News.

    I may have just made a very undignified noise.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Heir wrote: »
    The main thing that concerns me with Pfizer's vaccine (and I believe Moderna's has a similar downside) is how will this be shipped to different clinics and pharmacies. I believe it has a requirement to be kept very cold until it's time to be applied. I'm not sure if some of the other vaccines in trials (Novavax for example) require that kind of overhead from a transportation and storage standpoint.

    That's true, I did read it requires -80s. Labs are well equipped with storage at that temperature but I couldn't say what pharmacies usually have on hand. Worst case we use these in cities and some of the other candidates out where the facilities can't support the requirements.

    Gilgaron on
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    The main thing that concerns me with Pfizer's vaccine (and I believe Moderna's has a similar downside) is how will this be shipped to different clinics and pharmacies. I believe it has a requirement to be kept very cold until it's time to be applied. I'm not sure if some of the other vaccines in trials (Novavax for example) require that kind of overhead from a transportation and storage standpoint.

    I'd assume refrigerated trucks? We have other vaccines that have to be kept cold, so it may just be an issue of transport capacity. It's a serious issue to get it out to less developed parts of the world though.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    The main thing that concerns me with Pfizer's vaccine (and I believe Moderna's has a similar downside) is how will this be shipped to different clinics and pharmacies. I believe it has a requirement to be kept very cold until it's time to be applied. I'm not sure if some of the other vaccines in trials (Novavax for example) require that kind of overhead from a transportation and storage standpoint.

    That's true, I did read it requires -80s. Labs are well equipped with storage at that temperature but I couldn't say what pharmacies usually have on hand. Worst case we use these in cities and some of the other candidates out where the facilities can't support the requirements.

    The mRNA ones have the worst transport requirements, the attenuated virus ones the best, with killed and DNA vaccines in the middle.

    It doesn't have to be -80 all the time however, thats its long term storage temperature. As it gets closer to the target (your arm), it spends time in warmer environments which it is rated for.

    It's like

    20 C 6 hours
    0 C 120 hours
    -20 C 480 hours
    -80 C Stable

    Or something in that ball park.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    That seems like a stability curve the military should be able to support most places. At -20 you can probably use whatever they ship frozen meat and seafood in.

  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    As long as it's not like, instantly ruined under -80, I'd assume that it'll be fine for shipping. Dippin Dots are stored at -40 C/F, and there are freezers for that that go to -60 F at least. Should be more than fine for rapid shipping and deployment.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    That seems like a stability curve the military should be able to support most places. At -20 you can probably use whatever they ship frozen meat and seafood in.

    I should say that those numbers aren't exactly published from the supplier, but data I have seen is that -80 C is stable, 20 C (room) is 6 hours and 8 C (fridge) is 24 hours.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Mvrck wrote: »
    As long as it's not like, instantly ruined under -80, I'd assume that it'll be fine for shipping. Dippin Dots are stored at -40 C/F, and there are freezers for that that go to -60 F at least. Should be more than fine for rapid shipping and deployment.

    The ice cream of the future saves the day today!

    The storage temperatures are absolutely a challenge, because you can't just say, pallet it up and ship it to rural india or something which is a huge part of the task of an truly succesful vaccine, but, its certainly a solvable problem.

    tbloxham on
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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    It's not like all the other vaccine experiments are going to stop. Knowing that one works, even if temporarily, means the others also have a chance and there is also the possibility of improvements on the first one in the future. A stop-gap would still give us valuable breathing room.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    It's not like all the other vaccine experiments are going to stop. Knowing that one works, even if temporarily, means the others also have a chance and there is also the possibility of improvements on the first one in the future. A stop-gap would still give us valuable breathing room.

    Indeed, as I mentioned, Vaccine #1 working is when you know this bastard of a virus can bleed. We can keep hitting it harder and harder with more and more effective options.

    Its a thousand times easier to make something better, than to make the first of something.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    As long as it's not like, instantly ruined under -80, I'd assume that it'll be fine for shipping. Dippin Dots are stored at -40 C/F, and there are freezers for that that go to -60 F at least. Should be more than fine for rapid shipping and deployment.

    The ice cream of the future saves the day today!

    The storage temperatures are absolutely a challenge, because you can't just say, pallet it up and ship it to rural india or something which is a huge part of the task of an truly succesful vaccine, but, its certainly a solvable problem.

    No joke, when I was a food service manager at an amusement park, we had a big old walk in that was -60, and you weren't allowed to go in for more than 5 minutes at time, had special gear to wear and had to be opened and used on the buddy system. All just for storing the Dippin Dots for the whole park.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    These recent graphs have been pretty dire. When would we be expecting deaths to catch up with this upturn?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    There's a two week lag time.

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  • LucedesLucedes keeps happening for some reason Registered User regular
    Looking at the timing more closely, this seems like the front end of the Halloween weekend spike to me. A little over a week to symptoms and positive tests seems correct-ish?

  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    There's a two week lag time.

    I think it’s about 3 weeks on average. Today we are seeing infections from roughly 9 days ago. That’s how long it takes to develop symptoms, get tested, and have your test results reported. Death usually happens 14-28 days after infection and takes another week or two to get reported because the death certificate has to be filled out and verified. So, we will see the deaths from the infections reported today in about 12-33 days.

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